This is a head’s up to all KSUM Conference attendees.
A KSU Student named Jessica Fisher has publicly announced her intention to protest the KSUM conference Male Students in Peril in a comment on The Sentinel.
I personally find a protest superfluous considering that everyone is invited to attend and participate in discussion, but protesters are welcome to exercise their First Amendment rights.
To everyone else, do note that engaging feminist protesters is not a good idea given that feminist protesters have a reputation of initiating violence and verbal abuse. Some examples can be viewed in the videos below, but this is by no means everything.
This is not to suggest that KSU protesters will be violent, but we cannot operate on the assumption that the protest will be peaceful.
Cameras may be onsite, particularly ones belonging to Studio Brule. If you are attacked by a protester, either run away or curl up into a ball to absorb any blows. Do NOT retaliate, because we live in a culture where self-defense, justified or not, will cause a media firestorm if a feminist and/or a woman is subject to violence of any kind. Instead, try to catch the attention of a cameraperson. You want to be on camera if someone is pursuing you, because in that case the assailant can be held accountable.
The fairness of the situation is irrelevant. Anyone caught performing any illegal activity will be led off campus in handcuffs.
I don’t care if I like you personally, or if you are a supporter of KSUM. Fuck up, and your name will end up on my shit-list and the next report to the local police.
Protesters may be out and about on campus, which with the exception of privately owned buildings, is a public venue with no reasonable expectation of privacy. It is highly recommended that you record everything with your smartphone, audio recorder, or any other device for your protection. It is well within your rights to record a public space. If someone has harassed you, please report the incident to public safety or your nearest officer. If you wish to publicize an incident in which someone conducts themselves in an illegal or highly questionable manner, you can send us any relevant footage and we will feed it to our media connections.
Gender is a hot topic that can rile people up, so note for the record that KSUM will automatically and immediately disassociate itself from any persons willing to go to war over ideas. We do not tolerate even so much as the ideation of violence or criminal activity in the name of any visceral reaction to a threat either real or perceived.
Ultimately, it doesn’t matter what your convictions are. There will be no babysitters in attendance.
If you cannot be civil about sensitive discussions on gender, do not come to Male Students in Peril.
Here is a quick overview of the conference schedule as it takes place in the University Rooms of the Student Center. Note that this schedule is subject to change, so revisit this page from time to time for updates.
Every speaker will have an hour at the podium. 50 minutes will be allotted to the presentation, and the remaining 10 will be dedicated to questions for the speakers. Of course, in practice, the times listed below for speakers are approximate.
12:00-2:30 Doors open, invite-only social, setup
3:00–3:15 Opening address, Sage Gerard
3:15–4:15 Jonathan Taylor, Keynote
4:15–5:15 Karen Straughen
6:30–7:30 Janice Fiamengo
7:30–8:30 Paul Elam
9:00-10:00 Sage Gerard
11:00–12:00 Closing address, dismissal and cleanup
Brian Neal Clyne from Kennesaw State University’s Atheists United club has challenged me to debate on the topic “Did Feminism Get it Wrong?” This invitation has come after my attempt to join the club, which is part of an ongoing effort for KSUM to network with other groups. AU is also working on getting Dr. Richard Dawkins to visit KSU and deliver a speech.
I happily accepted the invitation to debate and requested if we do the debate on a Google+ Hangout. Brian’s response is as follows:
I will not debate you online because that is not a real debate. A real debate is in person, neutrally moderated (as you said, to your credit), and in front of a live audience. I will need to look at my schedule, but anytime on a Friday should work for me. You would need to set up a large room as a public event through Student Life. And ensure that I have enough time to prepare for it and that it fits with my schedule.
I admire the fact that you have the “courage of your convictions.”
And when I say “debate,” I mean a Socratic Debate, where we are both given equal time to make our claims, equal time to rebut one another, then time for the live audience to ask questions. I do not mean us yelling at one another, helter-skelter.
If we do this well, both you as an activist and me as a Feminist will garner great acclaim and support from the community, as well as dispelling any misconceptions about our positions on the topic.
I will not bring up religion unless you do, which I would not advise because it is my expertise.
Doing it on Google instead of live will make us both look pathetic.
Propose a time and date and I will let you know if it works for me. Let’s do this right! Not online, in person! Find a moderator and put it together.
I read your article in the paper, and was actually impressed that you held your own.
Your group and yourself have acquired quite the reputation on campus. Now is the time and means to set the record straight.
Do not speak ill of me to my group, nor harass the ladies in my group and I will do the same: be a respectful member of your group. Do not have your people join my group to do the same and we will be fine. Actually, it would be best if we both left along with our other members, one another’s groups so there is no question of conflict of interests, nor could anyone say that we “staged” all of this.
Think about it; let me know.
National Society of Collegiate Scholars
Phi Theta Kappa
KSU Atheists United
Thanks for the email. It’s interesting to run into a fellow Phi Theta Kappan after all of these years. I was an officer for the Omicron Alpha chapter during my junior college degree program. As a brief aside, I was competing for a regional webmaster position, but I voluntarily gave up the race to a woman in Omicron Alpha because she wanted the Regional Historian position, and we could only have one candidate per chapter. There are many other stories I could share about my experience as the only male officer for a year, but I’ll put those aside for the time being to discuss the debate.
I’m fine with a Socratic debate in a classroom with plenty of prep time for both of us. I think you can appreciate my wish for the debate to be published online so that people outside of campus can benefit from the experience. The emergent perspective of the campus audience will not be as diverse as that of the general public, after all. If we record in a classroom, cameras can be rented from the KSU AVTS offices. If cameras cannot be acquired, then audio recorders are a minimally acceptable fallback.
But before I get too ahead of myself, I need to question some of your propositions in the interest of a fair negotiation.
What evidence proves that our debate would be a yelling match? Also, why does the tone of your email suggest that I am likely to harass women in your group? Another email you sent to the members reads as follows:
First off, I did not know about your wanting to debate until you started posting stuff after my joining AU on OwlLife.*
Second, I’m getting mixed messages. One one hand, you say that AU is happy that I joined, but apparently my messages are subject to screening based on AU’s standard of what is offensive. Who sets that standard, and why is that standard objective and fair? The following OwlLife email notification makes it appear as if the standard is based on community impressions, in this case, the opinions of female members.
Finally, you won’t need to screen my messages because I will be posting where AU can’t touch them anyway. I don’t need anyone’s approval to speak.
Factoring all this plus in your recommendation to keep our memberships separate, I wonder how AU is as conducive to open discussion as The Sentinel suggests.
But I digress, because the opinions of AU members on my membership are not relevant to a negotiation on debate terms.
I work 65+ hours a week, and I really don’t care if we debate or not. I just think it would be fun if it happens. KSUM members are already setting up a $13,000 conference that demands our entire focus. Our time is too valuable to change everything we are doing on an outside whim.
Your wanting to debate is not my responsibility. And if I’m going to be treated as some potential “problem,” then do you really expect me to do work for AU? You are the challenger, so I’m not going to trouble myself with setting up the venue.
I hear your desire for formality, and I understand and respect your wish to do things academically. But consider the pragmatics of the situation and ask yourself if perhaps pedantry and bureaucracy can incur unnecessary expenses for both of us. I recommend a G+ Hangout not because it’s what I want, but because it is much easier to schedule and there is no expense involved with arranging a venue or acquiring cameras. The cost of bureaucracy drops to nothing, and we still get the benefit of doing it live with a moderator.
As for it looking “pathetic” or somehow not genuine, that’s an opinion. This is not Bill Nye vs. Ken Ham, so why worry so much about the image? Neither one of us are that special, and I doubt anyone would sit and give us grief if we adopted an online format with webcams.
Other people donate to this organization, so I’m not going to disrespect their contributions by bending to an aggressive will. They are also not “my people” in the sense that I can tell them what to do. They don’t belong to anyone, and I respect their choice to decide their involvement for themselves. I’m not going to tell KSUM members to drop everything and work according to your terms and your schedule. KSUM is not for anyone to dictate, including myself. I am an officer working with respectable people whom I consider to be moral equals, and I include feminists in that description, especially if they show up and work hard. It’s the people who sit off in the distance making demands that end up fading into irrelevance.
What kind of leader would I be if I did what you told me to do? I don’t insist that AU do what I want. In fact, I only proposed what can help us both.
You want the debate, and you want it in a classroom.
I’m not setting that up.
I await your reply on how to approach the debate, but note that all correspondence with me is subject to publication.
I wish you the best of luck in funding your event to bring Dawkins down to KSU.
Founder, Kennesaw State University Men
Collegiate Activism Director, A Voice for Men
* OwlLife is a social media platform for KSU student organizations.
Sierra’s piece was followed by a more expected editorial by Ashli Howell, who rehashes talking points on how both KSUM and AVfM are 1940s-reminiscent rape dungeons operated by white men and greased with the blood of the innocent.
We’ve seen what happens when feminists protest , which is why security has been alerted to the potential for disruption at the conference long in advance. Protesters are welcome to attend, and they are welcome to protest pursuant to their First Amendment rights in a way that is not disruptive of the conference. However, people all over the world have put good money in the conference, so hysterical thugs will be viewed as members of the Please Handcuff Me Coalition. Everyone deserves to have an enlightening, pleasurable experience. Those who aim to harm or disrupt with be promptly escorted out of the venue, regardless of their convictions.
Jessica, we welcome open minds and questions, not accusations. You can RSVP 100% free on Eventbriteand get time to ask whatever question you like of the speakers. Personally I’m not sure why a protest is necessary, but who am I to tell you what to do? Hell, KSU even has up a spot right outside the Student Center on the campus green dedicated to public demonstrations.
So that’s Jessica, on to Ashli Howell:
I first became aware of KSU Men after seeing a few posters around campus and decided to look into it.
Ashli, I do not recall you attending a KSUM meeting. If you did, you certainly have not contacted KSUM staff with questions for the purposes of this piece.
Here’s what I found after hours of watching videos on Sage Gerard’s YouTube channel, which is under the name Victor Zen and researching the men’s rights movement: it appears to have some valid points. However, bringing awareness and discussing these issues is not the goal of KSU Men.
Your curiously absent sources non-withstanding, you have no authority to speak for us about our goals. KSUM has men and women in membership, and it is selfish to gloss over their thoughts and feelings. KSUM is feeding the homeless and pushing for equitable campus programs. Saying that we do nothing is really disrespectful to the people who work hard here.
While researching the men’s rights movement, there was no shortage of feminist vitriol, there was a lot of discussions on the A Voice for Men discussion board about the friend zone, and there was very little about any issue concerning men’s rights.
At the time of this writing, the AVfM forums have 11,364 threads on international events, entertainment, philosophy, and more. The current figure can be found near the bottom of the main forum page. Apparently all you got was “a lot of discussions” on the friend zone, and I don’t recall seeing that many after moderating that forum for several months.
I did a search for “friend zone” (without quotes) and got 36 threads (that, like the total thread count, may have grown since this article’s publication). If we assume for simplicity’s sake that is all the friend zone discussion on the AVfM discussion board, then you get that friend zone threads make up 0.003% of the board. Even if you could find something objectionable in those threads, they were started by “lots” of people who do not represent AVfM or the men’s movement anyway.
It seems to me that the men’s rights movement is not trying to advance any concerns they have, but to degrade and discredit feminists at any opportunity.
Now imagine that a man in that movement (who has done nothing to stop this insanity) protrudes his bottom lip and burps No-True-Scotsmans like:
We care about equality, and the women who don’t like it just need to get laid. Yes there are extremists, but women just want to attack and blame men. They don’t actually care about their own rights, or themselves.
What would you think about a movement like that?
I’d say that movement is run by psychos and the idiots who enable them.
Now what if I told you all of those things have been done, by feminists, to men? Flip the words “women” and “men” in the big paragraph above and you get a picture of reality, supported by the links. Saying that you are the real feminist that really believes in real equality is a cowardly cop-out.
No one here is blaming all of feminism for all problems happening to men. But feminism is a highly corrupt dogma based on the hysterical lies of manipulative, vindictive pundits and the gullible oafs who love them. There is nothing wrong with men and women with thoughts and feelings calling bullshit on that mess. While men’s rights advocacy is not necessarily the same as anti-feminism, men’s rights advocacy cannot be performed without accepting some hard truths about feminism that feminists don’t want to hear.
#WomenAgainstFeminism, A Voice for Men, the National Coalition for Men, A Voice for Male Students, GirlWritesWhat, The Honey Badger Brigade, KSU Men, Men’s Rights Edmonton, Men’s Rights Sydney, Men’s Rights Ireland, J4MB and countless other individuals and organizations have popped up precisely because we are sick of this shit, we’re sick of the ignorance and fear you propagate, and for the love of god, we want change.
If feminism was a movement run primarily by men for men’s rights, it would have been cast as a terrorist group long ago. Many of us aren’t nice to feminists because feminists abused us, and we don’t care how we sound anymore.
I proudly denounce feminism. I’m okay with women because they are human and therefore not particularly special, just like men. Women are not the same thing as feminism, and feminism as an institution does not act in a manner consistent with its purported goals. This is not speculation, it’s verifiable fact, and the “real feminists” are too sparse to clean the mess.
The second problem I have with the movement is the shock value it often uses to gain attention. The founder of A Voice for Men, Paul Elam, which funded KSU Men, said, “In the most severe and emphatic terms possible the answer is no, they’re not asking to get raped. They are freaking begging for it…near demanding it. And all the outraged PC demands to get huffy and point out how nothing justifies or excuses rape won’t change the fact that there are a lot of women who get pummeled and pumped because they are stupid (and often arrogant) enough to walk through life with the equivalent of a I’m a stupid, conniving b*itch – please rape me neon sign glowing above their empty little narcissistic heads.”
It was a piece of satire posted and removed a long time ago. It was a provocative attack on the issue of “victim blaming” whereby feminists react to any insinuation that women should take precautions and use good judgement to reduce the probablility (sic) of violent crime as though it is unfairly putting the onus on victims. I said it in the same light as one might say that leaving your car running and unlocked in a grocery store parking lot was “begging to get your car stolen,” which is an expression that would raise very few eyebrows, even though it matches perfectly with the idea of not getting sloshed and getting into a car with a stranger as a good judgement call to reduce the chances of something bad, like rape, happening to you.
Feel free to ignore or twist that too, but it’s only fair that context is provided. Let’s go back to Ashli’s yammering:
This statement, admittedly, was incredibly shocking. It was also exactly what Paul Elam aimed to do. He has said that the Voice for Men movement does not actually believe those things and was just saying them for shock value.
When you live in a society that, by default, thinks you (as an innocent person) are actually evil and oppressive, you get tired of sitting in polite compliance.
Face facts: You ignored well over 99% of AVfM’s content and cherry picked what fits some delusional fantasy of calling yourself egalitarian and accusing everyone who disagrees with you of hate. And you stepped on other women to make that point.
It also landed A Voice for Men on the Southern Poverty Law Center Misogyny sites list, further detracting from any issues it wants to address.
A staff writer in your publication found that was bullshit. There is a reason her piece is in News and yours is in Commentary.
They believe that because you are pro-woman, you must be anti-man.
KSUM never took issue with organizations like Kennesaw Women in Mathematics because we didn’t find their pro-woman advocacy to be objectionable given what we’ve seen so far. You need to prove when and where the Official Grand Patriarch of the Men’s Rights Movement™® explicitly stated that “if you are pro-woman, you must be anti-man.” Until then, your words are speculation.
[If] there is to be any meaningful discussion about the concerns that groups like KSU Men have, the hate has got to stop.
And yes, extreme feminists that bathe in the tears of men have some blame here too […]
I’ll ask you the same question I asked the other zealot: Where were you?
Where were you when KSUM was trying to secure a more gender equitable narrative in RAD Systems? Where were you when I was passed an accusatory note by a feminist on this campus?
Right now I see empty words from an empty head with an empty resume, with empty support from empty people who want everyone else to be equally empty. You show up only when you see an opportunity to push your brand name, without substantiating any of your political fluff with action or experience.
This is why KSUM needs to exist, and why anyone with an open mind should come to the Male Students in Peril conference on November 1st.
KSUM members, KSU has a Feed the Future program on campus, which distributes food and other necessities to impoverished students. Homeless students are the majority of consumers for the program, according to the KSU C.A.R.E. center.
We will be donating whatever food and grocery bags we can find to Feed the Future for the upcoming Homeless Awareness Week event. If you would like to give a much needed helping hand to the poor students on campus, please review this list of C.A.R.E.’s needed items and bring boxes or bags of whatever you can spare to a KSUM meeting. We will stockpile all donations and deliver them to the center to make sure that the homeless and the poor have something to eat.
Note that the donations are NOT tax-deductible, and that the Feed the Future program will not accept expired food (even if its canned).
If you do not have boxes, you can ask your nearest grocery store if they have any boxes they are throwing out. Chances are very good you’ll walk out with more than enough boxes.
There is perfectly good food in many homes that no one ends up eating, so take this opportunity to clean out your pantry and give what you can to those who actually need the nourishment.
Hey folks, Sage here. KSUM Secretary Stacy Evans will be hosting the Monday meeting to discuss a recent CDC study. Cookies will be served. So, the Monday meeting is no longer cancelled.
I will be out of the meeting recovering from a medical procedure, but will return for the Thursday KSUM meeting to discuss further developments for our Homeless Awareness Week canned food drive and the upcoming conference.
If you could, please go through your pantries and stock up whatever canned foods you will never eat to bring to the meeting. We are in the process of finding a distributor in the KSU C.A.R.E. center to make sure that the hungry get fed.
Lauren Martin is a writer for Elite Daily, and she wrote a beautifully condescending piece on why women should ask men out. There is apparently a lack of appropriate suitors for single women. Lauren’s explanation is not that there is culture of fear and mistrust perpetuated by years of gynocentric diatribe, it’s that men are a bunch of pussies.
We’re dealing with a new breed of men here and it’s not the kind we grew up dreaming about. It’s the want-what-I-want-but-don’t-know-how-to-get-it type; it’s the sweet and cuddly mama’s boys who grow up terrified of making the first move; it’s the guys who have so much to say but don’t know how to say it.
Now, the unfortunate paradox for a woman is that she must be the chased and the chaser. She must be the target and the shooter. She must play coy and simultaneously pursue him. […] Yet again, women are left to do all the work. We’re left playing both sides of the game because they’ve simply forgotten how to play.
This is the kind of perspective that can only be developed if your moral compass is strapped to a magnet. If your entire perspective on the dating scene has no inclusion for the perspective of the “breed” you don’t like, then, I don’t know, start a farm for purebreds? Seems like you’d be perfectly content locking up the 1990s Pierce Brosnans in stables for future resale.
It stems from a number of factors, but most prominently from the fact that men don’t know what the hell they want from us. They want the virgin and the whore. The want the slut and the good girl. They want the girl who’s hard to get, but they don’t know how to get her.
No, men want trust. Other perks such as emotional stability, intelligence and a rockin’ body are factors that are weighed. And if any of those things are deal-breakers to some guys, then that’s up to them. Don’t like what a guy wants? Don’t date him.
There are men on the dating scene in a state of confusion because gendered communication is a minefield that can result in slanderous allegations of sexual assault, or worse. If a man is too up front with his desire, he will be cast as creepy or even dangerous. But if he’s too withdrawn, he’s a pussy that’s making women do all of the work?
I call bullshit.
How many people ask you out, Laura? I can’t help but imagine that the men willing to ask you out after reading your article are, ironically, pussies. It takes a man with no self-esteem to read your article and then come to you for validation.
Because they don’t know what they want, they end up chasing nothing. It’s the dilemma of the overcrowded buffet. There are too many options so they choose an empty plate… or something they don’t even like to begin with.
You just described life, Socrates. Are you suggesting that you posses god-like powers of deduction that made you not only know exactly what you want from love and life, but the capacity to never be disappointed with whatever you get? After writing about how disappointed you are in men? You’re beyond pretending that you’ve reached the Nirvana of the dating scene.
This leaves women making all the moves. We must tell them what they want if we’re to get anywhere close to the goals we had for ourselves. But it will never be as we fully imagined because, in our dreams, men weren’t timid or scared little boys; in our dreams, men are the ones with the balls to ask us out.
Laura, if you projected any harder you could play movies. No, you need to tell men what you want. I’m not talking about writing snarky editorials, I’m talking about say what you expect to a man’s face. When men are confronted with something other than a nebula of conflicting preferences, you can trust them to make a clear decision.
For example, I refuse to get too close to anyone who thinks I can’t be trusted with my own thoughts. This is one of many reasons why we would never date.
Keep a log of the kind of men that stick around you, and perhaps reflect on how your words influence your social standing.
Oh, shoot. There I go victim-blaming again.
They’ll never admit it, but you scare the hell out of them. […] Men are shy, timid and scared sh*tless of any woman with half a brain.
Actually, this is completely true. Men are scared of women with half a brain because they prefer women with whole brains. The women with whole brains have empathy, compassion and a capacity to reason. The women with half a brain end up writing for the Elite Daily.
It’s said that the male ego is as fragile as a woman’s heart and unfortunately for women, men won’t take the chance of letting it shatter. While women willingly put themselves out there, men stand back, scared of the tiniest bruise on their overinflated self-image
Almost. Men are scared of the massive beatdown that can be inflicted by other men and the state if a woman expresses a little discomfort. Do you know what that environment can do?
We must put ourselves out there and risk rejection. Because if we don’t do it, bars will soon be exactly like those middle school dances: boys on one side, girls on the other.
It’s already like that, and it’s precisely because women have been valued to the point where the cost for a relationship is prohibitive. Congratulations, you gave another reason for men to be on strike.
Why are men like this? Well, for years they’ve been raised by their mamas, the women who told them they were the best thing God created on this earth. For years, they’ve been given everything on a silver platter — up until the end of college when they were picking up women who just threw up their jungle juice.
Of course, some mothers have raised great men. This isn’t to discredit the generation of mothers before us who raised the myriad of young men we’re dealing with today. But for the select few who didn’t teach them how to properly court a woman, well, shame on you.
Yeah, shame those moms, because moms are supposed to give single women quality cock.
But honestly, what the hell is wrong with you?
Men, on the other hand, always seem to be waiting for something better. In the age of Facebook and Instagram, there’s this constant filtered delusion that a hotter girl sits just an inbox away.
Type “huge bulging Bugles” into Google image search and tell me with a straight face that sexually active women don’t sneak peeks at the results from time to time.
In a sad, but not all that surprising, report by Nickelodeon UK, men are 11 years behind women in maturity. While women reach maturation by 32, men aren’t fully matured until 43. While this study garnered much attention, women everywhere were less than surprised. Didn’t we already know this?
Did you just cite Nickelodeon?
We’re dating less and thus, marrying less. And the downfall picks up speed with every failed attempt to ask a woman out.
No, the downfall picks up speed when more men realize they are worth something.
All your talk, and I see you write no reason why you deserve love from a man.
Thank you, Laura, for your typographical depiction of lipstick-streaked vomit. I hope your less significant other finds joy in being the ottoman for your throne, right before you sell him on Craigslist after dropping too many Cheetos crumbs down his butt crack, you lunatic.